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Unionism

Posted in Union VS. Non-Union by GW on the August 30th, 2005

Talk about the significance of belonging to a union in the postal service.

26 Responses to 'Unionism'

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Anonymous said,

on November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

Some people feel that “Freeriders” are dragging down the Rural craft and expecting to get the benefits hard one by the union in contract negotiations. There is a movement to require membership in some cities in other unions.
Anonymous said,

on November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

I belong to the union, and know that the only real way to become informed is to belong. Many are afraid to belong, because of the added time it involves attending meetings and supporting fund raisers, but hey, if you want to keep your information up to date and know your options as an employee in any given situation then I recommend you belong to the union.
Linda Amtsfield said,

on November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

Belonging to the NRLCA is vitally important these days for a couple of reasons. Information is available to those who are members. Even these days, when we are so tired from running the routes with lower standards than ever before, we have information mailed to us, and the website is at our fingertips. For those with energy left, there are the meetings to attend for info and input. Also, as members, we are supporting our fellow carriers who need the grievance system…and guarantee that the union will be there for our support when the time comes. Then, there is GMAC, the auto and home insurance. I have a much lower rate for my insurance here in New Jersey. Check it out.
disgruntled said,

on November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

I belong to the union and I support the Union. There are just some places where there should be different people in the jobs of stewards. Some stewards seem to look for the most insignificant bs to complain about while there are people who have pay adjustments from two and three years ago who can’t get help getting them resolved. Sometimes it seems like the battles they pick to fight are the stupid ones.
Aquasox said,

on November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

As a steward, I stay very busy after normal route hours, either answering questions or by being actively involved in grievance activities. I am also a state union officer. I recently related my active union life to a friend who is a school teacher in another state. She is a member of the teacher’s union, and pays about three times what I do in union dues (regular rural carrier). After comparing the activity of our very busy union to her “not get much done teachers’ ” union, her comment was, “i DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY EVERY RURAL CARRIER IS NOT A MEMBER OF YOUR UNION!”
Anonymous said,

on November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

We have been told that our state union officers receive information from the national office on a weekly basis. They acknowledge that a lot of it would be of interest to rural carriers. They state the need to get this information to members and their current failure to do so. Current meaning the last three years. They state that all executive board meetings are open to all members who want to attend, yet they never publish the meeting dates or inform members who have expressed an interest in attending when and where they are. With an attitude like this of “I’ve got mine, you grovel and try to get some for yourself”, we as union members are not getting the service we are paying for.
dclifton said,

on September 2nd, 2005 at 3:33 pm

The main reason I am a part of the “association” (are we a union?) is because I want access to information. The information would be more useful if our National Officers did not give away all our benefits in mou’s, and allow management to walk all over us. As a paying member in this association I believe I should have a right to vote on those mou’s. I think it’s ludicrous to pay someone 2 minutes per mile to make a 2nd trip, and 3 minutes a day to deal with the mail in the back of the vehicle, all I can say is whoever agreed to that must not know what an L route is.

If every rural carrier went to the conventions there would be no one to deliver the mail, so we send delegates. I believe the convention goers (Officers and delegates) don’t spend enough time on business. I did not see very much productivity from the 2005 convention, just alot of pretty pictures, my didn’t they all look nice..

There are alot of unhappy rural carriers who are paying to be a part of an association that is tearing down the rural craft bit by bit, we get a raise we get a pay cut when we get counted, we have to work 6 days a week every week or every other, we get sick we get written up. Why should an RCA want to join? They see what’s going on around them, or they are too busy working to notice or care, or they don’t make enough money to pay the dues.
If it weren’t so difficult to stop paying dues our association might be in trouble.

When our Association becomes a real UNION then I believe we will see a difference. It doesn’t start at the bottom it starts at the top where our leaders are.
Administrator said,

on September 3rd, 2005 at 8:25 am

What we tend to be as a union/association is a buffer/manager for our own craft. We defend people to get their jobs back, we try to reduce LOW periods, we try to get pay issues settled and try to calm down issues between members of our own craft. As far as negotiating for better pay and working conditions that’s questionable and not seen at the local levels, but would be more apparent to state and national representatives. We can’t in any way be seen as a true union because we have no leverage like the ability to walk out, work stoppage, sick out or any other means of increasing the likelihood of a fair contract. I think through the years the gains we have made have been mostly on the back of the other unions or embarrassing the USPS with what they were pulling. Postal management has recognized that and now has dealt with that through hardball means.
Steve White said,

on September 7th, 2005 at 12:56 pm

This site is one of the best things for the NRLCA. We can actually communicate with one another to find out that our problems are everyones problems. We can all get on the same page and push some common issues with our leadership to possibly get things changed. How about a few days sickout during and after the third of the month when customers are waiting for there checks? Do you think they will address the fuel problem quick enough?
LandBaron said,

on September 11th, 2005 at 7:49 pm

Was a union member but quit when you all closed shop. The day I get to vote for my leadership I might return. Also had such sorry representation from ass. state steward in NC that all the rca’s have chosen not to join, and the one member left will quit on her anniversary date.
By the way the information found on-line far outdoes anything from the ass ociation’s propoganda magazine.
Administrator said,

on September 11th, 2005 at 8:07 pm

LandBaron,
As in war, the price of peace is constant vigilance. Participation is the only way to have an input. You need to dig in and get involved and not let others make your livelihood decisions for you. If you are not an NRLCA member you are not benefiting from the Rural Carrier Information Gateway in any significant way. You have to be a certified NRLCA member to take advantage of it’s full complement of offerings, or for that matter the wealth of information on the NRLCA site.

If you drop out you let me make votes that will have an impact on your future career. You are letting me have more power over you that way.

I know, I know, it takes time, energy, and a sense of dedication to attend meetings and become informed and maybe become a steward or officer in your local unit or even beyond that. You’ll need some leadership skills and knowledge of the rules, like Roberts Rules of Order etc. .

I wish you all well who are leaving your futures to me and my decisions. I try hard but, well, I’ll do my best…
dclifton said,

on September 12th, 2005 at 2:46 am

>>>If you drop out you let me make votes that will have an impact on your future career. You are letting me have more power over you that way.

I’m sorry, what is it that you vote on? Is there something I am missing here? We voted to ratify the 2002 rape contract, but that is it. Have never voted on anything of importance before or after that. The information given to make the decision was incomplete. Voting for delegates, that I don’t even know, who are making crappy decisions about my future career is not what I consider participation! It is the same delegates on the list over and over again.

What everyone doesn’t seem to understand is the Carriers who are up and coming are the unhappy RCA’s of yesterday. We are the ones who have been shafted. We have to work longer to retire. We are the ones who are not happy with the way this association has been run, and we realize we are stuck in a bueracratic mess that we cannot break into, no matter how much you tell us to participate. Why would the Association expect any one that they have left behind to want to be a part of the association?
When RCA’s are really included in our association, and not just given lip service, then you will see the membership rise.
Administrator said,

on September 12th, 2005 at 9:47 am

I’m sorry, but I see RCA’s as high members when that is what they want. Many are very busy mothers, who would rather spend time with their children than attending meetings with people they don’t know. When they are new to the job it seems the last thing many of them want is extra work attending meetings and getting to know strangers to try to work the system. The ones you do get are usually highly motivated for whatever reason and have no children at home to keep them tied there. The matrix gives RCA’s the greatest flexibility and when used properly RCA’s have more decision making power than ever. Why you have focused on RCA’s is beyond me. As for the same delegates being at the national conventions time and time again, that is because they get to know the system, probably like to travel and participate in those kinds of events and want to contribute to the craft.
Administrator said,

on September 12th, 2005 at 1:35 pm

Mark Stanley Wrote:
To: Mark Stanley

I don’t normally reply to chats but this one has got me going. I’ve been working rural for over 28 years. I am not the happiest person in the world for either. I hung in there for 25+ years as a member and have had enough. The union? has let us down to many times in the recent past and I could not send them money when they are not doing THEIR job. Pay stays the same or reduces while union reps pay increases. When they have a system where their pay reflects our pay, I’ll reup. Let’s drop this association and get a real one!!!

Posted for Mark by Administrator.
dclifton said,

on September 12th, 2005 at 6:17 pm

Why do I focus on RCA’s?
Those are the new members the association needs, but does very little for. RCA’s are the potential members of tomorrow that we need to keep things going, yet we are having trouble hiring and retaining good RCA’s because they are still being left behind in contract negotiations.

I have seen RCA’s with 4 and 5 years in quit to go find other work. They worked every day, with no benefits. Both very intelligent women who wanted a life. They were tired of working 6 days a week with no benefits no insurance, no options. Nothing has changed.

Because when I was an RCA I got the shaft. I have not forgotten. I wish other carriers would remember. Especially those wonderful delegates you were referring to. That keep voting no.

I have to disagree with your comment>>>The matrix gives RCA’s the greatest flexibility and when used properly RCA’s have more decision making power than ever
Administrator said,

on September 13th, 2005 at 7:12 am

Look,
We’re talking here about a job that pays well but is very demanding on the body and soul. Not all people are cut out to do this kind of work. You can pick on the lack of benefits, and frankly I agree with you, but the price to regulars is a heavy one to grant benefits to RCA’s. There is always a trade-off as you know when dealing with the USPS. If you get benefits for RCA’s they will take benefits from Regulars. Since the powers that oversee the USPS consider letter carriers as glorified paperboys, then I think you see who we have to influence to get the changes you want. It’s not the National Officers, every one of them would like to look good and get those benefits, it’s the Direct Mailers Associations, advertisers, R.R. Donnelly, and Congress we need to convince.
Mike Bove said,

on September 13th, 2005 at 11:08 am

Has the Association ever taken a step ahead without taking two backward?
The Agreement is rigged in favor of the USPS. They can do whatever they want by interpreting one of the many ifs.
I favor decertifying.
dclifton said,

on September 13th, 2005 at 2:59 pm

>>>but the price to regulars is a heavy one to grant benefits to RCA’s.

What price are you speaking of? What price do the city carriers and clerks pay for giving their relief benefits? I have heard of RCA’s moving over to the city and clerk crafts, but never from their craft to ours…why is that? Because they value their PTF’s? Because the PTF is doing the same job as they are and they value themselves. By saying RCA’s aren’t worth it we are saying that we are not worth it, and then we are constantly surprised to see how little the Postal Service values the rural letter craft.
Administrator said,

on September 13th, 2005 at 5:26 pm

I’m not saying they aren’t worth it, because they are worth it. We are in a precarious place between a rock and a hard place. The USPS can threaten us with transferring territory over to the City or Highway Contractors. If we become as expensive or more expensive to run than the City craft then we will certainly lose, not a little but a lot. The divisions in the USPS types of delivery serves the financial needs of the USPS and is a great form of leverage to keep the various crafts in line. We demand too much and they will transfer territory, they demand too much and we benefit from that. You need to attack this problem outside of the USPS. Congress still makes the rules.
Steve White said,

on September 13th, 2005 at 9:49 pm

If they threaten to transfer what do we do? Duh! We contact all our members and do an organized sickout. We perform a work to rules and slow the mail delivery. We also change the bylaws and make everyone not in the union required to pay an agency fee in the office equal to our union dues. They do enjoy the benefits don’t they. This is what a union does.
dclifton said,

on September 14th, 2005 at 2:50 am

So your saying that the NRLCA is a useless organization, and we are paying our National officers way to much to do absolutely nothing, because everything is really controlled by congress? We are paying dues for this?
It also sounds as if your saying that if we push for equality with the city carriers they will then fire all rural carriers and transfer the territory to city carriers? Sounds a little far fetched to me. Sounds like a scare tactic to keep us in line, and the sad thing is…it’s working, look at all that has happened over the past 4 years. I could not wait to become a regular carrier so that I could have 2 days off a week. What a joke, I’ve been feeling like an RCA since 2002. Yeah when I was an RCA I worked 6 days a week. The 3 route matrix in our office was a big laugh because I was trained on and ran frequently 12 routes. I was working like a PTF with NO benefits. There are RCA’s in my office now who are doing the same thing.
I don’t think congress has anything to do with it.
rayt333 said,

on September 20th, 2005 at 6:57 pm

I have worked for the postal since 1989 and I was a union member until just a couple years ago. I quit because the union sold me out, let me explain: The PM cut 2 miles off my route (his right to make route more efficent) but then he proceeded to add boxes (on paper) and take away more miles (on paper) to make my route appear to be an “L” route which results in a 3 hour pay cut. This was not done at a count but inbetween counts. Everything he done was wrong according to the contract. I filed my grienvance and waited for almost two years (I was owed backpay for 9 months for 3 hours per week) After 2 years or so I was told by supervisor that he was at meeting when they were discussing different grienvances and they were going to settle mine and pay me the $1800 or so I was owed. I waited for a few months and asked the union steward about it and he checked and came back and told me the union made a deal with the PS to settle a handful of grienvances in exchange to allow a 20+ year carrier to get their job back and thought I should be happy with the outcome. That is bullshit and I started the process to drop out of the union which I did on my “date”
So if any one says I need the union I ask them “what has the union done for me?” why should I support their backstabbing tactics.
Administrator said,

on September 23rd, 2005 at 5:09 pm

Ray,
What I say to you is you are experiencing personality issues. That happens everywhere and disenchants the best of intentioned people. By backing out of the union, you have become that person’s doormat. It’s really up to the individual carrier to know their rights and fight for them. An association can only provide language and law. It’s up to the individual to follow through either taking the course to fight head to head with the USPS or decide to take another less confrontive pathway. If your area union dropped the ball, then you need to go after them for doing that. If they violated NLRB rules you have a case against them.

You have weakened the union by your lack of force of will. You needed to hang in there and study the contract, and see that deals aren’t made in the back room. The union is only as good as it’s membership at the very bottom level. If there is weak resolve there, then there is little reason for strength of resolve at higher levels.

Yes it would be nice if we had top lawyer class stewards with exceptional abilities and leverage to negotiate with management for the benefit of fellow carriers, relieving our burdens and making life lala land for us all, but that’s not the case. We have members who don’t come from families practicing the law, we have hard working individuals, who would like to be great lawyers and negotiators, but they are carriers and as such they have entered into a career that exploits that part of their abilities.

Sometimes we get lucky and enjoy the talents of some good negotiators, but you know what, when the PO discovers them, they usually hire them in management. I don’t want you to think it’s hopeless, I’m not saying that, I just pointing out the reality of the situation. By dropping the union, you have severed the “ONLY” representation you have, and it doesn’t stop at your local level. You have people really trying to make a difference.

You experienced a failure, a disservice to you, but you could go that extra mile, and start participating in the union on a level that holds their feet to the fire. There are trade-offs for you when you do that, you have to give up 6 days or so a year to attend meetings, become more knowledgeable of the contract and labor law, but by doing that you are adding to the fiber instead of unraveling the fiber of the union.

Your words about the union are empty, cowardly, lackadaisical, retreats from the world you live in. Someone said they would like to see the union get a backbone, where do you think that backbone is going to come from? The union doesn’t get it from members retreating to a dark corner, it gets it from focused, knowledgeable, forward looking individuals who add their strengths together towards a greater goal. What would happen to a burning building if all the firemen felt the way you do? The building would burn down to the ground!
rayt333 said,

on September 28th, 2005 at 10:30 pm

Your comment says it all. The union is totally out of their league when going against the postal service, so why should I or anyone else support that same union when they do nothing for us. They aren’t able to go against the PO and they won’t hire someone more capable to do the fighting, instead they take our money to line their pockets and come back and tell us they did their best while selling us out. They are no better then PO management so what is the difference?
If the union was decertified and there was a problem then at least we could take legal action on our own. When I had pay problems I had to rely on the union to fight for me, they waited over 2 years before just selling me out, and because they had exclusive rights to protect me I couldn’t hire my own lawyer to fight for me. What a deal!!!
Screw the union.
I ask everyone this simple question, what has the union done for you?
We get less pay then others doing the same job
We get less benefits at a higher cost then others doing the same job.
We pay more out of pocket just to do our job. It costs me more to run my route (in gas alone) then I get with my EMA, plus I have to provide my car, pay for insurance, maintenance, tires, brakes, etc They told us 5 years ago they were going to get LLV’s for several of our routes, none yet? What does the union do?
NOTHING
So I ask, what has the union done for me?
Dzruntld1 said,

on October 2nd, 2005 at 2:09 am

I too WAS a member of the “Union” and when I needed answers to questions I was lied to by the “Union”. The Post Master gave me more truthful answers than the”Union”. At least I didn’t have pay for the truthful answers, but I paid my dues for the untruthful ones. So, where do you think my money is going now? Into my pocket instead of the lying SoB’s in the “Union”.
Administrator said,

on October 25th, 2005 at 5:29 pm

I have to say that the bottom line that you get from the union, is simply the language in the contract and representation when there is discipline. The language came from years of negotiations and what the USPS wanted out of us. Our biggest problems tend to be internal ones like someone receiving favor over another by management or the steward. From my experience there are more than enough members who want something they are not entitled to, (i.e. only working the choice routes in the office, getting called before someone more senior, or not having to work the tough route, not working Saturdays etc. etc. etc..) It’s all caving in, because of the USPS’s need for efficiency and accountability for the first time in history.

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