Comments on: Unionism http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/ Delivering sanity straight to you. Mon, 21 May 2012 04:03:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.5 by: Administrator http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-186 Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:29:17 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-186 I have to say that the bottom line that you get from the union, is simply the language in the contract and representation when there is discipline. The language came from years of negotiations and what the USPS wanted out of us. Our biggest problems tend to be internal ones like someone receiving favor over another by management or the steward. From my experience there are more than enough members who want something they are not entitled to, (i.e. only working the choice routes in the office, getting called before someone more senior, or not having to work the tough route, not working Saturdays etc. etc. etc..) It's all caving in, because of the USPS's need for efficiency and accountability for the first time in history. <img src='/wp-content/crackTheWhip.jpg' alt='Paying For Civil Service Retirement' /> I have to say that the bottom line that you get from the union, is simply the language in the contract and representation when there is discipline. The language came from years of negotiations and what the USPS wanted out of us. Our biggest problems tend to be internal ones like someone receiving favor over another by management or the steward. From my experience there are more than enough members who want something they are not entitled to, (i.e. only working the choice routes in the office, getting called before someone more senior, or not having to work the tough route, not working Saturdays etc. etc. etc..) It’s all caving in, because of the USPS’s need for efficiency and accountability for the first time in history.

Paying For Civil Service Retirement

]]> by: Dzruntld1 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-176 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:09:46 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-176 I too WAS a member of the "Union" and when I needed answers to questions I was lied to by the "Union". The Post Master gave me more truthful answers than the"Union". At least I didn't have pay for the truthful answers, but I paid my dues for the untruthful ones. So, where do you think my money is going now? Into my pocket instead of the lying SoB's in the "Union". I too WAS a member of the “Union” and when I needed answers to questions I was lied to by the “Union”. The Post Master gave me more truthful answers than the”Union”. At least I didn’t have pay for the truthful answers, but I paid my dues for the untruthful ones. So, where do you think my money is going now? Into my pocket instead of the lying SoB’s in the “Union”.

]]> by: rayt333 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-172 Thu, 29 Sep 2005 05:30:59 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-172 Your comment says it all. The union is totally out of their league when going against the postal service, so why should I or anyone else support that same union when they do nothing for us. They aren't able to go against the PO and they won't hire someone more capable to do the fighting, instead they take our money to line their pockets and come back and tell us they did their best while selling us out. They are no better then PO management so what is the difference? If the union was decertified and there was a problem then at least we could take legal action on our own. When I had pay problems I had to rely on the union to fight for me, they waited over 2 years before just selling me out, and because they had exclusive rights to protect me I couldn't hire my own lawyer to fight for me. What a deal!!! Screw the union. I ask everyone this simple question, what has the union done for you? We get less pay then others doing the same job We get less benefits at a higher cost then others doing the same job. We pay more out of pocket just to do our job. It costs me more to run my route (in gas alone) then I get with my EMA, plus I have to provide my car, pay for insurance, maintenance, tires, brakes, etc They told us 5 years ago they were going to get LLV's for several of our routes, none yet? What does the union do? NOTHING So I ask, what has the union done for me? Your comment says it all. The union is totally out of their league when going against the postal service, so why should I or anyone else support that same union when they do nothing for us. They aren’t able to go against the PO and they won’t hire someone more capable to do the fighting, instead they take our money to line their pockets and come back and tell us they did their best while selling us out. They are no better then PO management so what is the difference?
If the union was decertified and there was a problem then at least we could take legal action on our own. When I had pay problems I had to rely on the union to fight for me, they waited over 2 years before just selling me out, and because they had exclusive rights to protect me I couldn’t hire my own lawyer to fight for me. What a deal!!!
Screw the union.
I ask everyone this simple question, what has the union done for you?
We get less pay then others doing the same job
We get less benefits at a higher cost then others doing the same job.
We pay more out of pocket just to do our job. It costs me more to run my route (in gas alone) then I get with my EMA, plus I have to provide my car, pay for insurance, maintenance, tires, brakes, etc They told us 5 years ago they were going to get LLV’s for several of our routes, none yet? What does the union do?
NOTHING
So I ask, what has the union done for me?

]]> by: Administrator http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-165 Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:09:15 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-165 Ray, What I say to you is you are experiencing personality issues. That happens everywhere and disenchants the best of intentioned people. By backing out of the union, you have become that person’s doormat. It's really up to the individual carrier to know their rights and fight for them. An association can only provide language and law. It's up to the individual to follow through either taking the course to fight head to head with the USPS or decide to take another less confrontive pathway. If your area union dropped the ball, then you need to go after them for doing that. If they violated NLRB rules you have a case against them. You have weakened the union by your lack of force of will. You needed to hang in there and study the contract, and see that deals aren't made in the back room. The union is only as good as it's membership at the very bottom level. If there is weak resolve there, then there is little reason for strength of resolve at higher levels. Yes it would be nice if we had top lawyer class stewards with exceptional abilities and leverage to negotiate with management for the benefit of fellow carriers, relieving our burdens and making life lala land for us all, but that's not the case. We have members who don't come from families practicing the law, we have hard working individuals, who would like to be great lawyers and negotiators, but they are carriers and as such they have entered into a career that exploits that part of their abilities. Sometimes we get lucky and enjoy the talents of some good negotiators, but you know what, when the PO discovers them, they usually hire them in management. I don't want you to think it's hopeless, I'm not saying that, I just pointing out the reality of the situation. By dropping the union, you have severed the "ONLY" representation you have, and it doesn't stop at your local level. You have people really trying to make a difference. You experienced a failure, a disservice to you, but you could go that extra mile, and start participating in the union on a level that holds their feet to the fire. There are trade-offs for you when you do that, you have to give up 6 days or so a year to attend meetings, become more knowledgeable of the contract and labor law, but by doing that you are adding to the fiber instead of unraveling the fiber of the union. Your words about the union are empty, cowardly, lackadaisical, retreats from the world you live in. Someone said they would like to see the union get a backbone, where do you think that backbone is going to come from? The union doesn’t get it from members retreating to a dark corner, it gets it from focused, knowledgeable, forward looking individuals who add their strengths together towards a greater goal. What would happen to a burning building if all the firemen felt the way you do? The building would burn down to the ground! Ray,
What I say to you is you are experiencing personality issues. That happens everywhere and disenchants the best of intentioned people. By backing out of the union, you have become that person’s doormat. It’s really up to the individual carrier to know their rights and fight for them. An association can only provide language and law. It’s up to the individual to follow through either taking the course to fight head to head with the USPS or decide to take another less confrontive pathway. If your area union dropped the ball, then you need to go after them for doing that. If they violated NLRB rules you have a case against them.

You have weakened the union by your lack of force of will. You needed to hang in there and study the contract, and see that deals aren’t made in the back room. The union is only as good as it’s membership at the very bottom level. If there is weak resolve there, then there is little reason for strength of resolve at higher levels.

Yes it would be nice if we had top lawyer class stewards with exceptional abilities and leverage to negotiate with management for the benefit of fellow carriers, relieving our burdens and making life lala land for us all, but that’s not the case. We have members who don’t come from families practicing the law, we have hard working individuals, who would like to be great lawyers and negotiators, but they are carriers and as such they have entered into a career that exploits that part of their abilities.

Sometimes we get lucky and enjoy the talents of some good negotiators, but you know what, when the PO discovers them, they usually hire them in management. I don’t want you to think it’s hopeless, I’m not saying that, I just pointing out the reality of the situation. By dropping the union, you have severed the “ONLY” representation you have, and it doesn’t stop at your local level. You have people really trying to make a difference.

You experienced a failure, a disservice to you, but you could go that extra mile, and start participating in the union on a level that holds their feet to the fire. There are trade-offs for you when you do that, you have to give up 6 days or so a year to attend meetings, become more knowledgeable of the contract and labor law, but by doing that you are adding to the fiber instead of unraveling the fiber of the union.

Your words about the union are empty, cowardly, lackadaisical, retreats from the world you live in. Someone said they would like to see the union get a backbone, where do you think that backbone is going to come from? The union doesn’t get it from members retreating to a dark corner, it gets it from focused, knowledgeable, forward looking individuals who add their strengths together towards a greater goal. What would happen to a burning building if all the firemen felt the way you do? The building would burn down to the ground!

]]> by: rayt333 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-150 Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:57:35 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-150 I have worked for the postal since 1989 and I was a union member until just a couple years ago. I quit because the union sold me out, let me explain: The PM cut 2 miles off my route (his right to make route more efficent) but then he proceeded to add boxes (on paper) and take away more miles (on paper) to make my route appear to be an "L" route which results in a 3 hour pay cut. This was not done at a count but inbetween counts. Everything he done was wrong according to the contract. I filed my grienvance and waited for almost two years (I was owed backpay for 9 months for 3 hours per week) After 2 years or so I was told by supervisor that he was at meeting when they were discussing different grienvances and they were going to settle mine and pay me the $1800 or so I was owed. I waited for a few months and asked the union steward about it and he checked and came back and told me the union made a deal with the PS to settle a handful of grienvances in exchange to allow a 20+ year carrier to get their job back and thought I should be happy with the outcome. That is bullshit and I started the process to drop out of the union which I did on my "date" So if any one says I need the union I ask them "what has the union done for me?" why should I support their backstabbing tactics. I have worked for the postal since 1989 and I was a union member until just a couple years ago. I quit because the union sold me out, let me explain: The PM cut 2 miles off my route (his right to make route more efficent) but then he proceeded to add boxes (on paper) and take away more miles (on paper) to make my route appear to be an “L” route which results in a 3 hour pay cut. This was not done at a count but inbetween counts. Everything he done was wrong according to the contract. I filed my grienvance and waited for almost two years (I was owed backpay for 9 months for 3 hours per week) After 2 years or so I was told by supervisor that he was at meeting when they were discussing different grienvances and they were going to settle mine and pay me the $1800 or so I was owed. I waited for a few months and asked the union steward about it and he checked and came back and told me the union made a deal with the PS to settle a handful of grienvances in exchange to allow a 20+ year carrier to get their job back and thought I should be happy with the outcome. That is bullshit and I started the process to drop out of the union which I did on my “date”
So if any one says I need the union I ask them “what has the union done for me?” why should I support their backstabbing tactics.

]]> by: dclifton http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-132 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:50:59 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-132 So your saying that the NRLCA is a useless organization, and we are paying our National officers way to much to do absolutely nothing, because everything is really controlled by congress? We are paying dues for this? It also sounds as if your saying that if we push for equality with the city carriers they will then fire all rural carriers and transfer the territory to city carriers? Sounds a little far fetched to me. Sounds like a scare tactic to keep us in line, and the sad thing is...it's working, look at all that has happened over the past 4 years. I could not wait to become a regular carrier so that I could have 2 days off a week. What a joke, I've been feeling like an RCA since 2002. Yeah when I was an RCA I worked 6 days a week. The 3 route matrix in our office was a big laugh because I was trained on and ran frequently 12 routes. I was working like a PTF with NO benefits. There are RCA's in my office now who are doing the same thing. I don't think congress has anything to do with it. So your saying that the NRLCA is a useless organization, and we are paying our National officers way to much to do absolutely nothing, because everything is really controlled by congress? We are paying dues for this?
It also sounds as if your saying that if we push for equality with the city carriers they will then fire all rural carriers and transfer the territory to city carriers? Sounds a little far fetched to me. Sounds like a scare tactic to keep us in line, and the sad thing is…it’s working, look at all that has happened over the past 4 years. I could not wait to become a regular carrier so that I could have 2 days off a week. What a joke, I’ve been feeling like an RCA since 2002. Yeah when I was an RCA I worked 6 days a week. The 3 route matrix in our office was a big laugh because I was trained on and ran frequently 12 routes. I was working like a PTF with NO benefits. There are RCA’s in my office now who are doing the same thing.
I don’t think congress has anything to do with it.

]]> by: Steve White http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-131 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:49:17 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-131 If they threaten to transfer what do we do? Duh! We contact all our members and do an organized sickout. We perform a work to rules and slow the mail delivery. We also change the bylaws and make everyone not in the union required to pay an agency fee in the office equal to our union dues. They do enjoy the benefits don't they. This is what a union does. If they threaten to transfer what do we do? Duh! We contact all our members and do an organized sickout. We perform a work to rules and slow the mail delivery. We also change the bylaws and make everyone not in the union required to pay an agency fee in the office equal to our union dues. They do enjoy the benefits don’t they. This is what a union does.

]]> by: Administrator http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-128 Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:26:29 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-128 I'm not saying they aren't worth it, because they are worth it. We are in a precarious place between a rock and a hard place. The USPS can threaten us with transferring territory over to the City or Highway Contractors. If we become as expensive or more expensive to run than the City craft then we will certainly lose, not a little but a lot. The divisions in the USPS types of delivery serves the financial needs of the USPS and is a great form of leverage to keep the various crafts in line. We demand too much and they will transfer territory, they demand too much and we benefit from that. You need to attack this problem outside of the USPS. Congress still makes the rules. I’m not saying they aren’t worth it, because they are worth it. We are in a precarious place between a rock and a hard place. The USPS can threaten us with transferring territory over to the City or Highway Contractors. If we become as expensive or more expensive to run than the City craft then we will certainly lose, not a little but a lot. The divisions in the USPS types of delivery serves the financial needs of the USPS and is a great form of leverage to keep the various crafts in line. We demand too much and they will transfer territory, they demand too much and we benefit from that. You need to attack this problem outside of the USPS. Congress still makes the rules.

]]> by: dclifton http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-127 Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:59:07 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-127 >>>but the price to regulars is a heavy one to grant benefits to RCA’s. What price are you speaking of? What price do the city carriers and clerks pay for giving their relief benefits? I have heard of RCA's moving over to the city and clerk crafts, but never from their craft to ours...why is that? Because they value their PTF's? Because the PTF is doing the same job as they are and they value themselves. By saying RCA's aren't worth it we are saying that we are not worth it, and then we are constantly surprised to see how little the Postal Service values the rural letter craft. >>>but the price to regulars is a heavy one to grant benefits to RCA’s.

What price are you speaking of? What price do the city carriers and clerks pay for giving their relief benefits? I have heard of RCA’s moving over to the city and clerk crafts, but never from their craft to ours…why is that? Because they value their PTF’s? Because the PTF is doing the same job as they are and they value themselves. By saying RCA’s aren’t worth it we are saying that we are not worth it, and then we are constantly surprised to see how little the Postal Service values the rural letter craft.

]]> by: Mike Bove http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-125 Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:08:08 +0000 http://www.crazypostal.com/2005/08/30/unionism-2/#comment-125 Has the Association ever taken a step ahead without taking two backward? The Agreement is rigged in favor of the USPS. They can do whatever they want by interpreting one of the many ifs. I favor decertifying. Has the Association ever taken a step ahead without taking two backward?
The Agreement is rigged in favor of the USPS. They can do whatever they want by interpreting one of the many ifs.
I favor decertifying.

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